Ive experienced this more as we’ve had a kid and are making decisions with what experience we want to have in mind. We’re hoping to buy an apartment specifically bc it will keep us close (within 3-4 blocks) of close friends who already own an apartment next to where we’re currently renting. And when we made our will, while my best friend isn’t the guardian, she is named explicitly as someone who can and should be consulted if the guardians need to talk through how we might have wanted certain things handled, and also is outlined as someone who should be included in our child’s life and should be able to have 1:1 time with our kid (as long as our kid also wants to). She is childfree and put our kid in her will as a beneficiary. It was a real commitment of, this is a document I’m not planning on changing for years to come. I’m committed to you in this very real way, and I trust you with what I would leave behind if I’m not longer here. It’s a magical thing that really deepened our friendship, and has led to convos like the potential of owning a vacation house together someday, etc.
This is a very real conversation in our household - how and why we make time for the friends in our life and what role they play in lifting both of us up. Many women come to this with more ease, in my experience it takes longer for men to make those connections and a bit more effort to facilitate it. But nearly every woman I know married to a man also wants that man to have those deep connections too.
My biological sister lives very close to us, not walking distance, but a quick drive. She has become the "Third Adult" in our home. She comes to our house for dinner daily, unless she's got other commitments. Which means she is so close with my girls, knows our household routines, and is just overall the best. I know the thrust of this conversation is around non-family friendships, but the way my sister fills in the gaps in our life is what came to mind while listening to this newsletter.
Then, just this weekend, before I'd listened to this episode, some of the school moms and I were chatting and someone said "can't we just be each others in-laws?" to which I said "OF COURSE WE CAN" we are free to invent whatever we need.
Thanks for this really thoughtful conversation, it gots my wheels spinning. Have you read Big Friendship by Aminatou Sow (Author), Ann Friedman (Author)? Would for sure recommend. The authors are friends and they cover a lot of ground on how we treat modern friendship. They went to couples-counseling under the guise of it being a work relationship that needed mending.
We recently moved so we're definitely still working on building new community and making new friends, but so far we are loving that our neighborhood has tons of kids and our boys have already connected with a few who live within shouting distance. They've been running around between all our houses the last few weekends and I know who to call (or which direction to shout out "dinner time Gray boys!") when it's time to come home. It's given me some relative peace and quiet for a few hours on the weekends which I've desperately needed, and I could see how a living arrangement intentionally set up for this kind of communal living could be so live giving.
In our former city we did have a family that we had grown really close with the last few years who also had three boys. We had very similar values for how we're raising our boys, and since neither of us had any family in town, we did all our holidays we were both in town for together. I did really love that these past few years, just knowing who we'd spend those holidays with and the ease with which we all got along. We were also so happy to help them out when they had a sudden death in the family and they needed someone to watch their boys while they traveled to be with their family. Our boys first ever sleepover ended up being an epic two-nighter with the 6 crazy boys, what great memories!
Thank you for writing this! Coincidentally I just had this exact conversation with a friend this morning, we were dreaming about building a commune with our collective five children, throwing out the questions we would need to ask and answer before setting the gears in motion. This seems to be in the ether, but not many people willing to take the risk - so it is great to have a roadmap and such a clear definition of values and what it takes to buck the conventional approach.
The very real challenges, aside from conventional thinking and lifestyles (and recognizing "the water" we're all swimming in - capitalism, individualism, etc.) are finances and childcare. A bunch of us bought our first homes in the past 3-5 years and we feel locked in place with interest rates and the fact that we're still paying so much in interest upfront, and there is nowhere affordable to buy (let alone opportunities to buy close to each other!). Then child care... when I dream of moving, the glass shatters when I think "but then I'd lose my childcare slot and have to find another" (anyone else have this thought?? THE most significant reason to stay put if you've got it). I tend to focus my time on dreaming about living proximate to friends in 5 years, and preaching to people in their 20s that they absolutely should be thinking about these values NOW, before they're locked into a house and childcare situation. Thank you for writing :)
The very real financial and logistical challenges of making this happen and definitely feel like a big barrier. I think some of these ideas are things to work towards slowly and don’t necessarily happen overnight.
Ive experienced this more as we’ve had a kid and are making decisions with what experience we want to have in mind. We’re hoping to buy an apartment specifically bc it will keep us close (within 3-4 blocks) of close friends who already own an apartment next to where we’re currently renting. And when we made our will, while my best friend isn’t the guardian, she is named explicitly as someone who can and should be consulted if the guardians need to talk through how we might have wanted certain things handled, and also is outlined as someone who should be included in our child’s life and should be able to have 1:1 time with our kid (as long as our kid also wants to). She is childfree and put our kid in her will as a beneficiary. It was a real commitment of, this is a document I’m not planning on changing for years to come. I’m committed to you in this very real way, and I trust you with what I would leave behind if I’m not longer here. It’s a magical thing that really deepened our friendship, and has led to convos like the potential of owning a vacation house together someday, etc.
I love all of these stories of close friends without kids who are such important parts of kids’ lives!
This is a very real conversation in our household - how and why we make time for the friends in our life and what role they play in lifting both of us up. Many women come to this with more ease, in my experience it takes longer for men to make those connections and a bit more effort to facilitate it. But nearly every woman I know married to a man also wants that man to have those deep connections too.
The gender component of this is really interesting and something I want to explore more
So true, my husband and I have definitely had this same dynamic over the years.
My biological sister lives very close to us, not walking distance, but a quick drive. She has become the "Third Adult" in our home. She comes to our house for dinner daily, unless she's got other commitments. Which means she is so close with my girls, knows our household routines, and is just overall the best. I know the thrust of this conversation is around non-family friendships, but the way my sister fills in the gaps in our life is what came to mind while listening to this newsletter.
Then, just this weekend, before I'd listened to this episode, some of the school moms and I were chatting and someone said "can't we just be each others in-laws?" to which I said "OF COURSE WE CAN" we are free to invent whatever we need.
Thanks for this really thoughtful conversation, it gots my wheels spinning. Have you read Big Friendship by Aminatou Sow (Author), Ann Friedman (Author)? Would for sure recommend. The authors are friends and they cover a lot of ground on how we treat modern friendship. They went to couples-counseling under the guise of it being a work relationship that needed mending.
What an amazing relationship you have with her! Sounds so great for everyone involved
We recently moved so we're definitely still working on building new community and making new friends, but so far we are loving that our neighborhood has tons of kids and our boys have already connected with a few who live within shouting distance. They've been running around between all our houses the last few weekends and I know who to call (or which direction to shout out "dinner time Gray boys!") when it's time to come home. It's given me some relative peace and quiet for a few hours on the weekends which I've desperately needed, and I could see how a living arrangement intentionally set up for this kind of communal living could be so live giving.
In our former city we did have a family that we had grown really close with the last few years who also had three boys. We had very similar values for how we're raising our boys, and since neither of us had any family in town, we did all our holidays we were both in town for together. I did really love that these past few years, just knowing who we'd spend those holidays with and the ease with which we all got along. We were also so happy to help them out when they had a sudden death in the family and they needed someone to watch their boys while they traveled to be with their family. Our boys first ever sleepover ended up being an epic two-nighter with the 6 crazy boys, what great memories!
Thank you for writing this! Coincidentally I just had this exact conversation with a friend this morning, we were dreaming about building a commune with our collective five children, throwing out the questions we would need to ask and answer before setting the gears in motion. This seems to be in the ether, but not many people willing to take the risk - so it is great to have a roadmap and such a clear definition of values and what it takes to buck the conventional approach.
The very real challenges, aside from conventional thinking and lifestyles (and recognizing "the water" we're all swimming in - capitalism, individualism, etc.) are finances and childcare. A bunch of us bought our first homes in the past 3-5 years and we feel locked in place with interest rates and the fact that we're still paying so much in interest upfront, and there is nowhere affordable to buy (let alone opportunities to buy close to each other!). Then child care... when I dream of moving, the glass shatters when I think "but then I'd lose my childcare slot and have to find another" (anyone else have this thought?? THE most significant reason to stay put if you've got it). I tend to focus my time on dreaming about living proximate to friends in 5 years, and preaching to people in their 20s that they absolutely should be thinking about these values NOW, before they're locked into a house and childcare situation. Thank you for writing :)
The very real financial and logistical challenges of making this happen and definitely feel like a big barrier. I think some of these ideas are things to work towards slowly and don’t necessarily happen overnight.